Apple's First 5G Chip for iPhones Reportedly Won't Support mmWave

[laptech]

..........

If Apple can make a competitive modem, awesome. Good for all involved if they push Qualcomm harder too. I really doubt they are going to sell to the broader market, but if they can make a modem that performs well QCOM will need to keep up.

This is just it, without infringing on Qualcomm's patents, Apple will NEVER EVER make a competitive modem for the current mobile communications transmission methods because Qualcomm hold the patents that are pertinent in the chip design of a modem. MR had done a number of articles on the subject. There one specific one where MR went into specifics about the modem patents and why the ones Apple want ruled invalid bother Apple so much. 2G/3G/4G/5G are all different mobile communication protocols but they all have to do the same one thing and that is they have to ride piggy back on the core modem technology that allows the bit's of zero's and one's to communicate with one another. As the MR article pointed out, there are different ways this core technology can be achieved. The problem for Apple is that Qualcomm were the first ones to design the chip that allowed it to be extremely efficient, less power hungry and more robust than any later chip designs put forward by other modem manufacturers.

Intel had a very robust core modem design but it was only good for larger device applications which is why when you open up a laptop and look at the modem cards or the wifi cards, they are made by intel and have intel modem chips on them. Motorola had a very good robust core modem design but it was only good for land line communications. You will find many Motorola chips in fax machines. Then came the introduction of the mobile phone. All the major mobile phone manufacturers scrambled to be no.1, Motorola, Nokia, NEC, Panasonic. Each one using either their own or a 3rd party modem chip. NEC and Motorola were making their own modem chips, Texas Instruments, Qualcomm and Intel was making them for mobile phone manufacturers. The old analogue frequencies was being used. Then came the game changer, digital in the form of PCN and GSM. Apple fan's heap god like praise on Steve Job's for the visionary he was but yet no one gives the owners of Qualcomm and praise for the visionary they had on where mobile phone communications would take the world. They saw it's potential and thus designed a core modem design that would the see the test of time.

Qualcomm is vilified by Apple fans because they have the audacity to not let Apple use Qualcomm's patents for free. It would not surprise me that the incident at Xerox PARC led many budding designers to give serious thought how they wanted to protect their designs because at Xerox, it is well known in computer history that both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates saw the Xerox Alto computer in action, a computer that used windows and a mouse. Both Steve and Bill took what they saw and built their own versions, giving nothing back to Xerox, effectively stealing their idea.

There are a tremendous amount of bitter Apple fans when it comes to Qualcomm. The founders of Qualcomm saw the potential of mobile communications and put huge amount of effort into designing the best modem for mobile communications they can and they have. Now the company is vilified constantly because they will not let Apple get it's own way.

 

[Chuckeee]

Qualcomm will not be able to hold 6G hostage as Apple and other companies have teamed up to make sure this monopoly doesn’t happen again.

An issue is that when the 6G standard is finalized it will most likely include requirement to be downward compatible with at least the 5G and 4G specifications. So to implement a 6G modem Apple would still need to be able to implement a 5G and a 4G modem too.

 

[laptech]

Qualcomm will not be able to hold 6G hostage as Apple and other companies have teamed up to make sure this monopoly doesn’t happen again.

Apple just needs to buy Qualcomm and be done with it, or the Government just needs to let them do it.

Only a new communications technology will be able to give Apple what they want because what people are not understanding about this modem issue is that the core modem technology is all about how the modem talks to the rest of the electronic components in the mobile phone. For it to work voltages, frequencies, signal waveforms, data bits one's and zero's have to be done in a very specific way or the modem will not communicate with the rest of the electronic components. Mobile telecommunication standards can go up to 100G or even a 1000G, it does not matter because as long as the mobile phone uses the current established mobile communications protocol, Apple does not have a leg to stand on.

Qualcomm's design for modems for the mobile communications market is the best in the business, no one can touch them. You either use them, license them or build your own inferior ones.

 

[Chuckeee]

Only a new communications technology will be able to give Apple what they want because what people are not understanding about this modem issue is that the core modem technology is all about how the modem talks to the rest of the electronic components in the mobile phone. For it to work voltages, frequencies, signal waveforms, data bits one's and zero's have to be done in a very specific way or the modem will not communicate with the rest of the electronic components. Mobile telecommunication standards can go up to 100G or even a 1000G, it does not matter because as long as the mobile phone uses the current established mobile communications protocol, Apple does not have a leg to stand on.

Qualcomm's design for modems for the mobile communications market is the best in the business, no one can touch them. You either use them, license them or build your own inferior ones.

Actually I was under the impression that one of the key pieces that Qualcomm owns is the low power, high efficiency implementation of the analog portion of the modem.

 

[cdsapplefan]

Only a new communications technology will be able to give Apple what they want because what people are not understanding about this modem issue is that the core modem technology is all about how the modem talks to the rest of the electronic components in the mobile phone. For it to work voltages, frequencies, signal waveforms, data bits one's and zero's have to be done in a very specific way or the modem will not communicate with the rest of the electronic components. Mobile telecommunication standards can go up to 100G or even a 1000G, it does not matter because as long as the mobile phone uses the current established mobile communications protocol, Apple does not have a leg to stand on.

Qualcomm's design for modems for the mobile communications market is the best in the business, no one can touch them. You either use them, license them or build your own inferior ones.

One thing for certain is that Apple will not continue to pay Qualcomm billions 💰 of dollars so something has to give one way or the other.

 

[cdsapplefan]

An issue is that when the 6G standard is finalized it will most likely include requirement to be downward compatible with at least the 5G and 4G specifications. So to implement a 6G modem Apple would still need to be able to implement a 5G and a 4G modem too.

No way Apple will continue to pay Qualcomm billions into the 2030’s when 6G is available. Something has to give and Apple will save tons of money 💰 that’s there main goal.

 

[Chuckeee]

One thing for certain is that Apple will not continue to pay Qualcomm billions 💰 of dollars so something has to give one way or the other.

Why not? Apple continues to pay Samsung billions 💰 of dollars for displays

 

[cdsapplefan]

Why not? Apple continues to pay Samsung billions 💰 of dollars for displays

Because the display industry has a diversified mix of suppliers and not one Monopoly like the modem industry. In the past Apple has diversified there display orders and have given business to other display companies at a negotiated lower rate.

 

[laptech]

Because the display industry has a diversified mix of suppliers and not one Monopoly like the modem industry. In the past Apple has diversified there display orders and have given business to other display companies at a negotiated lower rate.

You seem to not understand what a monopoly is. There are multiple modem designs that Apple can use, hell they own their own modem designs now when they bought Intel's modem business. Owning a good design does not constitute a monopoly. I believe Motorola, Texas Instruments and Siemens all make a modem chip for mobile phones. I am sure there are also some obscure Chinese ones that we have not heard of. Apple can use any one of them. Hell, Apple even made it's own 5G modem but yet does not want to use it because it's performance is sub par when compared to Qualcomm's.

Apple's solution is quite simple, accept the inferior performance of it's own 5G modem.

 

[Biro]

Qualcomm will not be able to hold 6G hostage as Apple and other companies have teamed up to make sure this monopoly doesn’t happen again.

Apple just needs to buy Qualcomm and be done with it, or the Government just needs to let them do it.

I don’t think that’s how it’s going to work out:

Qualcomm approached Intel about a takeover in recent days, WSJ reports

(Reuters) -Qualcomm made a takeover approach to chipmaker Intel in recent days, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday, citing people familiar with the matter. Intel's shares reversed course to rise 8%, while Qualcomm fell 4% in afternoon trade. Intel has been attempting to turn its business...

www.msn.com

 

[cdsapplefan]

You seem to not understand what a monopoly is. There are multiple modem designs that Apple can use, hell they own their own modem designs now when they bought Intel's modem business. Owning a good design does not constitute a monopoly. I believe Motorola, Texas Instruments and Siemens all make a modem chip for mobile phones. I am sure there are also some obscure Chinese ones that we have not heard of. Apple can use any one of them. Hell, Apple even made it's own 5G modem but yet does not want to use it because it's performance is sub par when compared to Qualcomm's.

Apple's solution is quite simple, accept the inferior performance of it's own 5G modem.

Well Apple’s goal is only to save money and not to outperform Qualcomm’s modem. They can easily just buy Qualcomm if they wanted there performance. They have been poach hiring all of Qualcomm’s modem experts, but that’s besides the point.

At the end of the day, Apple will save money with there modem and that’s all that matters to them. They will fine tune the modem and it will get better over time battery and performance and physical space.

 

[cdsapplefan]

I don’t think that’s how it’s going to work out:

Qualcomm approached Intel about a takeover in recent days, WSJ reports

(Reuters) -Qualcomm made a takeover approach to chipmaker Intel in recent days, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday, citing people familiar with the matter. Intel's shares reversed course to rise 8%, while Qualcomm fell 4% in afternoon trade. Intel has been attempting to turn its business...

www.msn.com

Ok so what does this mean? Qualcomm is not buying Apple

 

[Biro]

Ok so what does this mean? Qualcomm is not buying Apple

Qualcomm is an acquirer… not the acquired.

 

[laptech]

Qualcomm buying Intel is not a good purchase in my opinion because Intel does not really have anything of value to Qualcomm. Qualcomm already make a mobile processor that is far superior to Intel's. I do not think Qualcomm want to get into the desktop/server CPU market thus having Intel's patents for desktop and server CPU's seems pointless to me because Qualcomm's focus is on the mobile market. Their processors are already being used in many manufacturers tablets, mobile phones and laptops. The only real benefit buying Intel would be being able to own multiple chip fabs. Qualcomm could quadruple it's output over night by taking over Intel's chip fabrications.

Now that would really give Apple something to think about because Qualcomm buying Intel would put Qualcomm up there as a serious competitor to Apple in the processor market.

Now that I think about it, buying Intel and grabbing Intel's patents on chip design could work in Qualcomm's favour because it would allow them to make even thinner and smaller processors. Apple should be very worried about this.

 

[Chuckeee]

Qualcomm buying Intel is not a good purchase in my opinion because Intel does not really have anything of value to Qualcomm. Qualcomm already make a mobile processor that is far superior to Intel's. I do not think Qualcomm want to get into the desktop/server CPU market thus having Intel's patents for desktop and server CPU's seems pointless to me because Qualcomm's focus is on the mobile market. Their processors are already being used in many manufacturers tablets, mobile phones and laptops. The only real benefit buying Intel would be being able to own multiple chip fabs. Qualcomm could quadruple it's output over night by taking over Intel's chip fabrications.

Now that would really give Apple something to think about because Qualcomm buying Intel would put Qualcomm up there as a serious competitor to Apple in the processor market.

Now that I think about it, buying Intel and grabbing Intel's patents on chip design could work in Qualcomm's favour because it would allow them to make even thinner and smaller processors. Apple should be very worried about this.

Qualcomm might be interested in Intel foundry capabilities.

 

[I7guy]

I don’t view lack of mmwave as a deal breaker. Roaming around the metro area I still get a lot lte.

 

[cdsapplefan]

Qualcomm buying Intel is not a good purchase in my opinion because Intel does not really have anything of value to Qualcomm. Qualcomm already make a mobile processor that is far superior to Intel's. I do not think Qualcomm want to get into the desktop/server CPU market thus having Intel's patents for desktop and server CPU's seems pointless to me because Qualcomm's focus is on the mobile market. Their processors are already being used in many manufacturers tablets, mobile phones and laptops. The only real benefit buying Intel would be being able to own multiple chip fabs. Qualcomm could quadruple it's output over night by taking over Intel's chip fabrications.

Now that would really give Apple something to think about because Qualcomm buying Intel would put Qualcomm up there as a serious competitor to Apple in the processor market.

Now that I think about it, buying Intel and grabbing Intel's patents on chip design could work in Qualcomm's favour because it would allow them to make even thinner and smaller processors. Apple should be very worried about this.

You think Apple, the most valuable company in the world 🌍 is worried about Qualcomm, lol 😂 I think Qualcomm is more worried that Apple is poach hiring all there workers and them inevitably ditching them for there own custom modem and them losing hella business money from Apple💰

 

[cdsapplefan]

Qualcomm buying Intel is not a good purchase in my opinion because Intel does not really have anything of value to Qualcomm. Qualcomm already make a mobile processor that is far superior to Intel's. I do not think Qualcomm want to get into the desktop/server CPU market thus having Intel's patents for desktop and server CPU's seems pointless to me because Qualcomm's focus is on the mobile market. Their processors are already being used in many manufacturers tablets, mobile phones and laptops. The only real benefit buying Intel would be being able to own multiple chip fabs. Qualcomm could quadruple it's output over night by taking over Intel's chip fabrications.

Now that would really give Apple something to think about because Qualcomm buying Intel would put Qualcomm up there as a serious competitor to Apple in the processor market.

Now that I think about it, buying Intel and grabbing Intel's patents on chip design could work in Qualcomm's favour because it would allow them to make even thinner and smaller processors. Apple should be very worried about this.

That’s not relative to Apple anymore as they do not buy chips from Intel anymore. Now if Qualcomm were to buy Intel and Apple still relied off of Intel chips, then Apple would be trapped by Qualcomm for modems and processors. Thankfully Apple resolved that with the breakthrough M1 chip and there future Custom 5G modem chip. If Apple can’t beat you then they build there own or buy you, end of story!

 

[laptech]

You think Apple, the most valuable company in the world 🌍 is worried about Qualcomm, lol 😂 I think Qualcomm is more worried that Apple is poach hiring all there workers and them inevitably ditching them for there own custom modem and them losing hella business money from Apple💰

In my opinion there is only one reason why Apple poaches Qualcomm engineers and that is so Apple can find ways to get around Qualcomm's Intellectual property on modem design. I do believe one of the engineers they poached was the man who was mainly responsible for designing the modem's core design. The problem was that Qualcomm took the matter to court explaining that knowledge the man had was so confidential that he would not be able to use what ever he had in his head to help design Apple their modem chip because he would inevitably use information that is proprietary to Qualcomm and therefore protected under law. Apple tried to do the same with senior engineers poached from Tesla but that also got stopped in it's tracks by Telsa.

If a company wants the inside track on another company, they poach their employees. Apple did that with Qualcomm but it did not work because Qualcomm could see what Apple was trying to do and shut that down. You need to remember this important fact. Apple had bought Intel's modem business which mean they now owned there very own highly experience modem design team who had decades of design experience amongst them but yet Apple having this very experienced design team still went after Qualcomm designers. There is only one explanation as to why, they wanted to know how Qualcomm's modem chips were so good. It is a fallacy for companies to think that once they poach an employee from a company, they now own what is inside that employee's had. No they do not and that has been tested in court by both Qualcomm and Tesla.

One of the things you also need to remember is this on going battle to make chips thinner and compact as possible because it reduces the overall size of the PCB. Smaller PCB's means smaller electronic devices. Intel and Apple's chip designers TSMC have been going at this for years. Qualcomm currently have to license from chip fabricators this technology. Whilst Intel does not have it down quite as good as TSMC, they still have good designs and that could be extremely crucial to Qualcomm, no longer having to spend millions of $$$ every year to license someone else's patents, buying Intel would allow them to have there own. And as already mentioned by another member buy Intel would also mean Qualcomm would have access to Intel's numerous chip fabricators which would put them on a higher chip output level than TSMC.

So, just think of this for a minute, if Qualcomm purchased Intel, Qualcomm, who make the best modems now having access to patents that would allow them to make the modem chips thinner and smaller AND having access to multiple chip fabrication plants that would allow them to build a lot more of the best modem chips, way more than what TSMC could. So, even if Apple were able to get their modem chips in order, they would be wanting to sell their chips to other device manufacturers but how are they going to do that if Qualcomm already known in the industry for making the best modems would be able to out produce Apple in modem chip quantity.

Look at it this way, if lets say Sony plan to design a portable gaming device that has cellular connectivity and they need a good strong functioning modem chip and there is Apple with their 5G version and Qualcomm with their 5G version. At present Qualcomm can not compete on production numbers with Apple which could limit supply numbers to Sony but how different would that be if Qualcomm bought Intel with them now being able to out produce Apple with the best modem on the market. Apple knows Sony is not going to pick them because Qualcomm would be able to produce the numbers Sony would require.

THAT is why Qualcomm buying Intel would be a huge threat to Apple and I think Apple would know it.

 

[laptech]

That’s not relative to Apple anymore as they do not buy chips from Intel anymore. Now if Qualcomm were to buy Intel and Apple still relied off of Intel chips, then Apple would be trapped by Qualcomm for modems and processors. Thankfully Apple resolved that with the breakthrough M1 chip and there future Custom 5G modem chip. If Apple can’t beat you then they build there own or buy you, end of story!

You've not understood the problems Apple had with Intel. Apple is all about peak optimum performance for their devices which Intel could not reach with Apple's latest performance requirements for this computers. Apple gave Intel a list of CPU performance requirements they had to hit for Apple's newest computers. Intel failed so Apple decided to build their own, hence the introduction of TSMC. If Apple had not been so strict on it's CPU performance requirements I have no doubt Intel would have still been Apple's CPU supplier. Apple has done a superb job of M1 and later chips BUT they are restricted to Apple devices only but look at Qualcomm and it's mobile processors, they can be found in a multitude of electronic devices thereby giving them the edge over Apple. Yes Apple have a 5G modem which they could sell to other electronic device manufacturers but who is going to buy an inferior 5G modem when they know there is a much much better one out there and is probably cheaper to buy than Apple's one.

One thing people do not understand when it comes to manufacturing, the best is not always used because it comes down to numbers. A manufacturer will have done their sales predictions and based on that know how many parts they would need to hit manufacturing targets. Number is very important in manufacturing. For example, Nokia want to bring out what they think will be then next best mobile phone. They have done the figures and worked out they need 5 million 5G modem chips. Apple with their TSMC plants say they can provide that number within a year and a half. Qualcomm who rely on 3rd party chip fabricators say they can provide that quantity within 3 years. Nokia is not going to wait that long, so even though Qualcomm modem is the best, because they cannot produce the numbers Nokia requires, Nokia gives the contract to Apple. Now, how different would that be if Qualcomm purchased Intel giving them access to Intel's numerous chip fabrication plants, Qualcomm say they can provide the number of chips Nokia wants in 8 months. So not only does Qualcomm beat Apple of supply chain delivery, they are also supplying Nokia with the best 5G modem. Nokia is going to give the contract to Qualcomm.

I've been involved in electronic device manufacturing for about 21 years from the likes of NEC, HP, Dell, Sun Microsystems, Nokia, Packard Bell and numerous more. You have to have worked in the industry to be able to understand that there is a lot more about a company buying another company that the huge majority of people in social media just do not understand. Sometimes MR does not even know because they leave out a lot in their news articles.

 

[okkibs]

Intel failed so Apple decided to build their own, hence the introduction of TSMC.

Yet Apple could have tried AMD first. You have way more knowledge than I do so I'll preface this saying I am likely wrong and I can see why AMD wouldn't be a real choice anyways, they don't do nearly as well at the performance-per-watt metric as ARM based chips. And Apple essentially uses mobile device hardware in their desktop systems as well (AIO iMac, Mac Mini and the base Studio comes with the same Max chip they put in their laptops) so that is a very important metric for Apple.

But if it was just about Intel failing they didn't have to go out of their way immediately to bring it in-house. What Apple really wants in my opinion is full control over supply chain as well as component firmware, complete integration to use their in-house skills to optimize the hell out of their devices in all metrics, to the benefit of Apple Inc. (whether that's predominantly optimizing for cost or performance or some other metrics).

Apple clearly must have been seeing how a decade with their own iPhone SoCs has pushed the boundaries of what mobile devices can do because for many years now iPhone has had incredible performance beating every single other flaghship smartphone easily if it weren't for the fact that the iPhone body is way too small to deliver that performance for anything other than short bursts. In the end most iPhones in the real world are basically idling their SoC 24/7 as few tasks require such processing capabilities and if they do, users will find themselves with a device running hot and out of battery quickly (prores video recording for example).

I am convinced Apple was perfectly aware of this and prototyping Apple Silicon Macs long before making a decision about Intel. The Mac Mini developer kits for Apple Silicon even had an iPhone SoC instead of the M1 and there were users who got their hands on working ones and showed they're perfectly usable plenty fast computers (though running a special MacOS build that cannot be updated).

Apple just waited until the mix of benefits was just right to finally make the switch.

But in the end in my limited opinion here I'd say Apple was going to switch regardless of what rabbit Intel could have pulled out of their hats. It wasn't peak performance, Apple at their core is a company that wants it all, wants it all on their terms, and wants it to look like magic too. Performance wasn't ever the point. You can even see it with their keynotes where performance metrics are barely touched and real graphs are never provided. Tim Cook wants nothing more than to descend from a far-away Planet Apple in his Apple Spaceship and deliver us his proprietary world in a device that's to us indistinguishable from magic and when anyone asks, Tim how did you do it? He'll proudly tell you how Apple came up with these brilliant ideas that are an industry-first.

He can't do all that which is why we get the sometimes boring, often ridiculous keynotes to the point of where they become entertainment and Apple fans prepare bingo cards for what buzz words and phrases might be used. Apple is the only business that does it this way and it's endearing, although it's a step down from how well Steve Jobs delivered his legendary keynotes.

To complete the circle and come back to this topic - Apple does not want chips from Intel or Qualcomm or anyone in their devices. It's a showstopper to their ultimate goal as described. They are building more redundancy into their supply chain already by spreading production across more countries and they won't stop there. I can't see under any circumstance how they could get this done without losing large sums of money but they did it with Intel and it was to their benefit after all.

I think they're playing the long game, a very long one, and Intel is merely one of the many small dominos falling over for a long time already and an even longer time to come.

Yes Apple have a 5G modem which they could sell to other electronic device manufacturers but who is going to buy an inferior 5G modem when they know there is a much much better one out there and is probably cheaper to buy than Apple's one.

Apple isn't going to sell their own modems to anyone. Even if they could make absurd amounts of money through it it's worth much more to Apple not having to share their tech with anybody. iPhone will become known for having the best modems just like they're known for having the fastest SoCs now. Consumers will see benefits like better battery life and better reception even in the entry-level iPhone SE. Apple will no doubt casually have better modems in their SE than other manufacturers will have in their flagships. To Apple that won't matter, the big picture of kissing Qualcomm byebye is why they do it.

 

[Biro]

Apple isn't going to sell their own modems to anyone. Even if they could make absurd amounts of money through it it's worth much more to Apple not having to share their tech with anybody. iPhone will become known for having the best modems just like they're known for having the fastest SoCs now. Consumers will see benefits like better battery life and better reception even in the entry-level iPhone SE. Apple will no doubt casually have better modems in their SE than other manufacturers will have in their flagships. To Apple that won't matter, the big picture of kissing Qualcomm byebye is why they do it.

This is what I think. Apple doesn’t want to share anything with anybody. Of course, that could change under a different CEO. But, as of right now, I believe this to be true.

 

[laptech]

Yet Apple could have tried AMD first. You have way more knowledge than I do so I'll preface this saying I am likely wrong and I can see why AMD wouldn't be a real choice anyways, they don't do nearly as well at the performance-per-watt metric as ARM based chips. And Apple essentially uses mobile device hardware in their desktop systems as well (AIO iMac, Mac Mini and the base Studio comes with the same Max chip they put in their laptops) so that is a very important metric for Apple.

But if it was just about Intel failing they didn't have to go out of their way immediately to bring it in-house. What Apple really wants in my opinion is full control over supply chain as well as component firmware, complete integration to use their in-house skills to optimize the hell out of their devices in all metrics, to the benefit of Apple Inc. (whether that's predominantly optimizing for cost or performance or some other metrics).

Apple clearly must have been seeing how a decade with their own iPhone SoCs has pushed the boundaries of what mobile devices can do because for many years now iPhone has had incredible performance beating every single other flaghship smartphone easily if it weren't for the fact that the iPhone body is way too small to deliver that performance for anything other than short bursts. In the end most iPhones in the real world are basically idling their SoC 24/7 as few tasks require such processing capabilities and if they do, users will find themselves with a device running hot and out of battery quickly (prores video recording for example).

I am convinced Apple was perfectly aware of this and prototyping Apple Silicon Macs long before making a decision about Intel. The Mac Mini developer kits for Apple Silicon even had an iPhone SoC instead of the M1 and there were users who got their hands on working ones and showed they're perfectly usable plenty fast computers (though running a special MacOS build that cannot be updated).

Apple just waited until the mix of benefits was just right to finally make the switch.

But in the end in my limited opinion here I'd say Apple was going to switch regardless of what rabbit Intel could have pulled out of their hats. It wasn't peak performance, Apple at their core is a company that wants it all, wants it all on their terms, and wants it to look like magic too. Performance wasn't ever the point. You can even see it with their keynotes where performance metrics are barely touched and real graphs are never provided. Tim Cook wants nothing more than to descend from a far-away Planet Apple in his Apple Spaceship and deliver us his proprietary world in a device that's to us indistinguishable from magic and when anyone asks, Tim how did you do it? He'll proudly tell you how Apple came up with these brilliant ideas that are an industry-first.

He can't do all that which is why we get the sometimes boring, often ridiculous keynotes to the point of where they become entertainment and Apple fans prepare bingo cards for what buzz words and phrases might be used. Apple is the only business that does it this way and it's endearing, although it's a step down from how well Steve Jobs delivered his legendary keynotes.

To complete the circle and come back to this topic - Apple does not want chips from Intel or Qualcomm or anyone in their devices. It's a showstopper to their ultimate goal as described. They are building more redundancy into their supply chain already by spreading production across more countries and they won't stop there. I can't see under any circumstance how they could get this done without losing large sums of money but they did it with Intel and it was to their benefit after all.

I think they're playing the long game, a very long one, and Intel is merely one of the many small dominos falling over for a long time already and an even longer time to come.


Apple isn't going to sell their own modems to anyone. Even if they could make absurd amounts of money through it it's worth much more to Apple not having to share their tech with anybody. iPhone will become known for having the best modems just like they're known for having the fastest SoCs now. Consumers will see benefits like better battery life and better reception even in the entry-level iPhone SE. Apple will no doubt casually have better modems in their SE than other manufacturers will have in their flagships. To Apple that won't matter, the big picture of kissing Qualcomm byebye is why they do it.

There are numerous companies out there that have been building and running SoC's devices years before Apple. The ONLY reason why Apple is able to achieve top performance with it's SoC iphone more so than any of it's competitors is because Apple has the luxury of being the ONLY company that design's both the chip and the devices hardware and software. Because Apple owns everything, this gives Apple the 'perfect storm' so to speak, where everything works together as one. Apple is able to fine tune software to work in perfect harmony with the hardware because there is no secrecy or confidently involved, it's all Apple.

This is where hardware and software designers for android mobile phones have problems, the software and hardware cannot work in harmony because each company involved has secrets they do not want other companies knowing. Android software designers could get harmony with SoC and how it charges batteries but they cannot because it would mean Qualcomm giving up secrets on how it designed the SoC's battery charging feature. It would be the same with the Qualcomm modems. Software designers could get harmony with the modem so it works to maximum efficiency 100% of the time but that would mean Qualcomm giving up secrets of how it's designed is modem for that to happen. Apple does not have this problem, it can design the software and hardware to work in perfect harmony. Whether they chose to do that is a different matter.

 

[Alameda]

why not start off offering them in macs? Lower volume and nobody is going to freak out about mmwave.

Because Macs don’t have cellular modems. iPads do, but Macs don’t.

 

[dugbug]

Because Macs don’t have cellular modems. iPads do, but Macs don’t.

So? Modems on laptops has been a gap on apples lineups forever