Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Who's that good for?

Apple -- not your or I

They'll still overcharge people for repairs and pocket all the savings for themselves
Post warranty, you don't have to get it fixed by Apple. Third party service centres, even Apple authorized service centres, are often much cheaper than what Apple charges. Some Apple authorized service centres will even use refurbished or used parts sourced elsewhere for repairs out-of-warranty to save money if the customer agrees.

So, yeah, this is a really big deal IMO. In the past it would have meant the entire machine was toast if the SSD died. Now, only the SSD needs to be replaced.
 
Does that forgive the Power Button on the bottom ? :)

Honestly, this machine is getting better and better.

I remember 10 years ago, when someone told me they where about to buy a Mac Mini, I was like "don't buy this sh&t". Now, I'm like : "That's about to be the best computer you've ever owned, and by far".
 
  • Like
Reactions: LelandHendrix
Does that forgive the Power Button on the bottom ? :)

Honestly, this machine is getting better and better.

I remember 10 years ago, when someone told me they where about to buy a Mac Mini, I was like "don't buy this sh&t". Now, I'm like : "That's about to be the best computer you've ever owned, and by far".
Yup, I remember that time. The late 2014 model that was sold until October 2018. All dual-core only plus soldered RAM. Pain in the butt to change the hard drive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PsykX
Yup, I remember that time. The late 2014 model that was sold until October 2018. All dual-core only plus soldered RAM. Pain in the butt to change the hard drive.
The 2014 is the easiest to upgrade from HD to SSD. No need to remove the HD, unless the HD is defective. Just leave the HD in situ as extra storage, and install a blade SSD. Takes literally just 10-15 minutes, with no disassembly required (aside from removing the base cover).
 
The 2014 is the easiest to upgrade from HD to SSD. No need to remove the HD, unless the HD is defective. Just leave the HD in situ as extra storage, and install a blade SSD. Takes literally just 10-15 minutes, with no disassembly required (aside from removing the base cover).
Maybe I'm miss-remembering this, but I'm pretty sure the models sold without a Fusion Drive (spinning drive only) didn't have the NVMe drive bay at all. Which, of course, were all the cheaper models. I know this was the case for the iMacs.
 
Maybe I'm miss-remembering this, but I'm pretty sure the models sold without a Fusion Drive (spinning drive only) didn't have the NVMe drive bay at all. Which, of course, were all the cheaper models. I know this was the case for the iMacs.
But the 2014 fusion model did have a blade slot that is easy to access, and a SATA tray that more or less stayed where it was in 2010-2012.
 
Maybe I'm miss-remembering this, but I'm pretty sure the models sold without a Fusion Drive (spinning drive only) didn't have the NVMe drive bay at all. Which, of course, were all the cheaper models. I know this was the case for the iMacs.
The ones with no Fusion Drive still had the blade SSD push connector slot. You just need an adapter, which came out a little later. When I bought my used 2014, I specifically looked for one without an SSD or Fusion Drive, because they are the cheapest and the simplest to deal with once you have that $10 adapter.
 
Who's that good for?

Apple -- not your or I

They'll still overcharge people for repairs and pocket all the savings for themselves

You are nothing if not consistent. Of course it's good for us to have the option. One of these days you will either accept that people have to pay for things for a business to survive (of course they are pocketing the savings) or you will move on.

Apple is not a charity. R&D costs money. Growth takes money.

It is good to have a repair option. If you can't afford to upkeep a car (or computer) don't buy it.
 
Socket or no socket, not entirely convinced that 2 chips on a platter automatically translates into increased bandwidth. With M1 and multiple main board soldered ssd units (2 or 4 if memory serves me right), I was (mis)lead to believe there was a bit more to it than that.

Might be Apple gets the bandwidth they want to sell, but could they have done better performance wise by application of a updated version of the multi chip solution from M1, or can they in fact get similar bandwidth with 2 chips on a platter?
 
different NAND modules for M4 and M4 Pro

M4:

M4.png



M4 Pro

M4Pro.png
 
Not really "SSD", but Apple-custom NANDs. The nvme controller is in M4 itself. But you get the idea

View attachment 2448284
View attachment 2448285
As I said before, my fears have been confirmed. The aerodynamics are the worst. The design of the fan is extremely bad - there will be mixing of air masses.
The joints that I see:
1)One heat pipe. Well Apple, is it so difficult to learn the laws of physics and design features. The diameter of the heat pipe is too small, there is no reserve for effective heat dissipation. The chip itself will be trotting, but also the memory. Two heat pipes, because they work independently and more efficiently. Normal cooling systems use at least 2 heat pipes - one between “chip heat sink and heatsink”, and the second between “memory heat sink - heatsink”. RAM memory hates overheating. And here is a common substrate.
2)The cooling radiator is a crescent moon. Uh, okay. A shape is a shape. Why is the effective area reduced!? For the sake of design!? It doesn't fit!? Why cut and rounded. The cooling efficiency is also reduced on the sides compared to the center, by 15-20 percent. Another disadvantage. You could have narrowed the fan housing and made it tulip-shaped. Judging by the space between the motherboard and the cooler case it was possible to install a larger fan by area. Apparently, they are just lazy to release a new type of fan - why, shove the same fan wherever you can - maybe it will cool, and maybe not.
3)NAND module has no cooling at all.
4)Repairability I estimate at 7 points out of 10.
On the M4 Pro, the cooling system won't handle the heat under heavy load. The Mac Mini will whine like an airplane turbine, and it will get hotter too. Closed spaces in the recesses of desks, nightstands, as well as putting anti-dust pads on them are best avoided - it will overheat very quickly.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: maxoakland
Please, can anyone find reviews that have drive benchmark numbers for the M4 Mini Pro? The hands on articles I've read for the M4 Mini Pro didn't bother to benchmark drive speed, as if they don't understand tech.

Based on mikeboss' post (and the card differences), I'm guessing the following:

The M4 Mini around 4GBps Read/Write at 256GB to 2TB.
The M4 Mini Pro at 512GB maybe around 4GBps, and at 1-8TB is 7.4GBps.


Found benchmarks for 512GB (perhaps) for Mini and Mini Pro: https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/desktop-computers/mac-mini-m4-review#section-mac-mini-m4-specs
 
Last edited:
As I said before, my fears have been confirmed. The aerodynamics are the worst. The design of the fan is extremely bad - there will be mixing of air masses.
The joints that I see:
1)One heat pipe. Well Apple, is it so difficult to learn the laws of physics and design features. The diameter of the heat pipe is too small, there is no reserve for effective heat dissipation. The chip itself will be trotting, but also the memory. Two heat pipes, because they work independently and more efficiently. Normal cooling systems use at least 2 heat pipes - one between “chip heat sink and heatsink”, and the second between “memory heat sink - heatsink”. RAM memory hates overheating. And here is a common substrate.
2)The cooling radiator is a crescent moon. Uh, okay. A shape is a shape. Why is the effective area reduced!? For the sake of design!? It doesn't fit!? Why cut and rounded. The cooling efficiency is also reduced on the sides compared to the center, by 15-20 percent. Another disadvantage. You could have narrowed the fan housing and made it tulip-shaped. Judging by the space between the motherboard and the cooler case it was possible to install a larger fan by area. Apparently, they are just lazy to release a new type of fan - why, shove the same fan wherever you can - maybe it will cool, and maybe not.
3)NAND module has no cooling at all.
4)Repairability I estimate at 7 points out of 10.
Except it is not throttling? Or not throttling that bad as you think it is. There is already plenty of reviews out there and you can see it.

Also, the aerodynamics is actually doing its job and you can clearly see the hot air exhusting direction from FILR:
Screenshot 2024-11-09 at 05.26.51.jpg
 
Last edited:
Except it is not throttling? Or not throttling that bad as you think it is. There is already plenty of reviews out there and you can see it.

Also, the aerodynamics is actually doing its job and you can clearly see the hot air exhusting direction from FILR:View attachment 2448749
I'm going to disappoint you. Facts are facts and on video, on photos are already shown. Especially you yourself gave the example of photos from the thermal imager. There is mixing of heat flow and keeping it in the computer case. Aerodynamics does not work here, unfortunately. This is just a beautiful marketing picture to attract and keep the viewer's attention to the new product, which was shown at the presentation. You yourself can do some elementary experiments at home and understand what I am talking about. In addition, the thermal imager clearly shows the concentration of heat in a small area.
The cooling system fails to effectively dissipate heat. Moreover, as the thermal imager shows from the thermal radiation, the fans have to increase their speed to cool everything down and the speed has to be decent, as well as the noise that will be heard, and the fans as the thermal imager shows are barely spinning at all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mindquest
the thermal imager clearly shows the concentration of heat in a small area.
While the hottest spots are on the heatsink and top at 60 Celsius, so what is the problem? If the hottest part is not the heatsink, you have a bigger problem.

You yourself can do some elementary experiments at home and understand what I am talking about.
Aerodynamic engineering is not elementary experiments, it relies on computation and CFD simulations. Huge centrifugal fans does push air towards a direction as long as the fan is powerful enough, which is the case when the M4 Pro was set to high performance mode which will vastly increases the fan speed.

Further discussion seems a bit like hijack of the thread so I don't want to continue here. If you insist it is a bad design and it is limiting the performance, I hope you can give more concrete proof other than "I think".
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
OSZAR »