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Apple Researching Ways to Use iPhone Camera to Detect Childhood Autism
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Smartest post here on the topic so far, imo.
Can we get the notch removed first? Lol. I can only imagine the ideas these guys come up with in meetings.
I am sure the team working on this have all the hardware engineering skills to help the hardware engineers get a good under screen sensor array and camera. While we are at it, why are the retail staff not working on removing the notch too? What about the HR department and marketing?
It looks to me the engineering department is running PR these days
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First, this research work with Duke University appears to build on what was announced in 2015 (it's not clear if it's a new study but it's unlikely to be with a completely different team of scientists): https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2015...archKit-Studies-for-Autism-Epilepsy-Melanoma/
"Autism: Duke University and Duke Medicine are launching “Autism & Beyond” for parents with concerns about autism and other developmental issues. The Duke research team is looking at whether the front-facing camera on an iPhone can be used to detect signs of developmental issues at a much younger age. The app uses novel emotion detection algorithms to measure a child’s reaction to videos shown on iPhone."
No one has been hiding anything (the WSJ article was wrong in that point). Edit: I reached out to the author of the WSJ article. He wrote back and indicated this was previously unannounced work. However, as I wrote above, this might be "new" in the sense that it's a new grant. This means it's an extension of the previous work the researchers were doing. That's how most grants work -- they build on your previous work. Unannounced doesn't mean completely new.
2nd edit: The WSJ article has been substantially updated from this morning. I'm sure I'm not the only one who contacted the author about potential issues but it is good to see the article more accurately reflects the current state of research. It's much improved.
It's clear most of the comments are from people who 1) do not understand research, 2) do not understand technology, 3) do not understand the medical field, and 4) apparently like to overreact to any sort of Apple news.
I'm sorry if this sounds condescending. Maybe it is, although it was not intended to be. I'm just tired of people reacting to news when they do not have all the information or do not try to understand the research that's being done. People are rushing to the extreme (slippery slope fallacy and catastrophizing) without understanding the nature of the science. There is no need to make a slippery slope argument and have that be most of the initial comments on this thread. I understand the concerns about the technology. We (colleagues and I) have discussions about potential abuses (see next paragraph). We need to be cautious but also should not automatically take the "Luddite" view and react against anything new.
Note that I'm not completely unbiased because I am a scientist in this general area (and have family on the spectrum). I am not doing autism research but some of my research incorporates technology to measure human behavior (including cognitive decline). This will be life-changing for many people. I'm not saying my research is specifically life-changing but the broader field of using mobile technology (phones, smartwatches, etc.) for health purposes will be life-changing. None of us in the field are trying to replace physicians or other health care professionals (my colleagues and I are in that category). We are trying to help everyone be more informed and have improved healthcare. We want healthcare to be be more accessible, lower-cost, and higher quality. Technology helps with that and yes, we can have all three of those (more accessible, lower-cost, and higher quality). Early detection of issues is vital. This is true for cancer, heart disease, and neurologic issues like autism. Privacy concerns must be addressed but we are mindful of them and discuss them regularly.
If the scientific evidence pans out, this will be huge for detecting ASD and helping people get appropriate treatment or at least appropriate support and information. Scientists have been working on video recording detection of ASD for many years. Extending this to home settings using iPhone cameras and sensors could have a huge impact and help many children with ASD as well as their families.
Example recent research
Nabil MA, Akram A, Fathalla KM. Applying machine learning on home videos for remote autism diagnosis: Further study and analysis. Health Informatics Journal. January 2021. doi:10.1177/1460458221991882
Sutantio JD, Pusponegoro HD, Sekartini R. Validity of Telemedicine for Diagnosing Autism Spectrum Disorder: Protocol-Guided Video Recording Evaluation. Telemed J E Health. 2021;27(4):427-431. doi:10.1089/tmj.2020.0035
Tariq Q, Daniels J, Schwartz JN, Washington P, Kalantarian H, Wall DP. Mobile detection of autism through machine learning on home video: A development and prospective validation study. PLoS Med. 2018;15(11):e1002705. Published 2018 Nov 27. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.1002705
"Autism: Duke University and Duke Medicine are launching “Autism & Beyond” for parents with concerns about autism and other developmental issues. The Duke research team is looking at whether the front-facing camera on an iPhone can be used to detect signs of developmental issues at a much younger age. The app uses novel emotion detection algorithms to measure a child’s reaction to videos shown on iPhone."
No one has been hiding anything (the WSJ article was wrong in that point). Edit: I reached out to the author of the WSJ article. He wrote back and indicated this was previously unannounced work. However, as I wrote above, this might be "new" in the sense that it's a new grant. This means it's an extension of the previous work the researchers were doing. That's how most grants work -- they build on your previous work. Unannounced doesn't mean completely new.
2nd edit: The WSJ article has been substantially updated from this morning. I'm sure I'm not the only one who contacted the author about potential issues but it is good to see the article more accurately reflects the current state of research. It's much improved.
It's clear most of the comments are from people who 1) do not understand research, 2) do not understand technology, 3) do not understand the medical field, and 4) apparently like to overreact to any sort of Apple news.
I'm sorry if this sounds condescending. Maybe it is, although it was not intended to be. I'm just tired of people reacting to news when they do not have all the information or do not try to understand the research that's being done. People are rushing to the extreme (slippery slope fallacy and catastrophizing) without understanding the nature of the science. There is no need to make a slippery slope argument and have that be most of the initial comments on this thread. I understand the concerns about the technology. We (colleagues and I) have discussions about potential abuses (see next paragraph). We need to be cautious but also should not automatically take the "Luddite" view and react against anything new.
Note that I'm not completely unbiased because I am a scientist in this general area (and have family on the spectrum). I am not doing autism research but some of my research incorporates technology to measure human behavior (including cognitive decline). This will be life-changing for many people. I'm not saying my research is specifically life-changing but the broader field of using mobile technology (phones, smartwatches, etc.) for health purposes will be life-changing. None of us in the field are trying to replace physicians or other health care professionals (my colleagues and I are in that category). We are trying to help everyone be more informed and have improved healthcare. We want healthcare to be be more accessible, lower-cost, and higher quality. Technology helps with that and yes, we can have all three of those (more accessible, lower-cost, and higher quality). Early detection of issues is vital. This is true for cancer, heart disease, and neurologic issues like autism. Privacy concerns must be addressed but we are mindful of them and discuss them regularly.
If the scientific evidence pans out, this will be huge for detecting ASD and helping people get appropriate treatment or at least appropriate support and information. Scientists have been working on video recording detection of ASD for many years. Extending this to home settings using iPhone cameras and sensors could have a huge impact and help many children with ASD as well as their families.
Example recent research
Nabil MA, Akram A, Fathalla KM. Applying machine learning on home videos for remote autism diagnosis: Further study and analysis. Health Informatics Journal. January 2021. doi:10.1177/1460458221991882
Sutantio JD, Pusponegoro HD, Sekartini R. Validity of Telemedicine for Diagnosing Autism Spectrum Disorder: Protocol-Guided Video Recording Evaluation. Telemed J E Health. 2021;27(4):427-431. doi:10.1089/tmj.2020.0035
Tariq Q, Daniels J, Schwartz JN, Washington P, Kalantarian H, Wall DP. Mobile detection of autism through machine learning on home video: A development and prospective validation study. PLoS Med. 2018;15(11):e1002705. Published 2018 Nov 27. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.1002705
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You mean like choosing not to use the caps lock key? Some people can't help themselves.
The attitudes and behavior of my children are noticeably different depending on how long they have been using electronics (computer, console, TV, or iPad), and the majority of the time their attitudes are worse. We had to implement time limits and total days off to limit the problem.
As a person who enjoys observational study, I would love to know how these researchers think they can detect disorders simply by interacting with a device. On the other hand, my own observations in my household tell me that using a bright, shiny, attitude-wrecking iPad may not be the best tool.
Instead, I would like to see a study where kids are asked to rate/describe their attitude and emotions before and after using the device.
Before: excited, curious, whimsical, happy
After: irritated that I have to stop using the device, angry that my parents are depriving me of fun
As a person who enjoys observational study, I would love to know how these researchers think they can detect disorders simply by interacting with a device. On the other hand, my own observations in my household tell me that using a bright, shiny, attitude-wrecking iPad may not be the best tool.
Instead, I would like to see a study where kids are asked to rate/describe their attitude and emotions before and after using the device.
Before: excited, curious, whimsical, happy
After: irritated that I have to stop using the device, angry that my parents are depriving me of fun
Or 4) have the foresight to see where technological overreach is taking the human race. Stuff like this is always the thin end of the wedge. People who don’t stop and think about the ramifications of such things are myopic. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Again with the patronizing “you don’t understand” mantra huh?
Apple is a consumer electronics company that sells, between other gadgets, smartphones. We buy Apple smartphones.
Some of us say we don’t like Apple using the tech we buy for these supposed matters.
I can’t stand a company that sells me a hermes watch strap and a soap opera running autism diagnosis for God knows what purpose, because Apple, make no mistake, doesn’t act out of the kindness of their hearts.
Apple is:
-A ruthless money making machine
-A mine of personal data
So excuse me if I’m suspicious when they’re trying to scan and classify people’s biodata and all kinds of parameters “for our good”
It’s not a matter of technicalities. It’s conceptual.
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Because Apple believes tech can help in many different areas of life? Raising kids is tough enough and I applaud Apples' research to help with what is unfortunately a lifelong issue.
You can vote with your dollars, if Apple isn't the company you want to do business with.
I can just imagine next week's headlines:
(1) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone cameras to identify people who are going to become murders at some point in the future"
(2) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone cameras to identify extraterrestrial aliens posing as humans on Earth"
(3) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone sensors and Apple car key funcion to identify people who are too drunk to drive"
(1) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone cameras to identify people who are going to become murders at some point in the future"
(2) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone cameras to identify extraterrestrial aliens posing as humans on Earth"
(3) "Apple researching ways to use iPhone sensors and Apple car key funcion to identify people who are too drunk to drive"
Yes their 10K clearly reflects all those sincere pursuits, from healthy children to worlwide peace. There is a special section at the end.
Lmao
I am so happy people are awake and aware what's happening.
On the good side - which also isn't so good - Apple wants to get into health care - big $$$$$$$. The only thing bigger than selling phones, is health. Or, "health".
On the bad side - we're in the middle of an attempted one world government takeover based on "health" so I view this with suspicion. Because all these metrics and snooping data are a Nazi wet dream basically.
My message would be
Apple, stay the hell out of my pants. And most definitely stay the hell out of my kids pants. We don't want you there, we don't want you snooping and measuring our bodies. That's none of your business.
Do what you set out to do - make nice phones. That empower people.
Apple needs to get back to the spirit of GarageBand. Probably the best app that's ever been invented.
On the good side - which also isn't so good - Apple wants to get into health care - big $$$$$$$. The only thing bigger than selling phones, is health. Or, "health".
On the bad side - we're in the middle of an attempted one world government takeover based on "health" so I view this with suspicion. Because all these metrics and snooping data are a Nazi wet dream basically.
My message would be
Apple, stay the hell out of my pants. And most definitely stay the hell out of my kids pants. We don't want you there, we don't want you snooping and measuring our bodies. That's none of your business.
Do what you set out to do - make nice phones. That empower people.
Apple needs to get back to the spirit of GarageBand. Probably the best app that's ever been invented.
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This will almost certainly be an opt-in feature. No need to tell apple your preference, if so.
Try asking a parent with an autistic kid if they would have valued finding out sooner. Key word - value. That's the motivation for Apple, IMO. Making a product with value.
You think this doesn't parallel other health metrics? You gonna complain when your Apple Watch tells you to go check out a possible heart condition?
I mean, or Apple's becoming skynet. That's gotta be it.
And if you put a piece of tape over the camera Siri will call the police.
In adults high level autism is much harder to detect. You kinda work on ways to 'blend in' as you get older and ignore the pain caused by the overwhelming sounds of day to day life so not to draw attention to yourself.
If only, it's much worse than that
On the one hand it's Apple becoming a medical company - injectable Apple chips are next, you can bet your ass they're working on that. The problem is the "health" industry is really a disease industry, which is the only way they make money, and also it's currently being used to track and control your every move and thought.
And Apple's snoop and spy tech is perfect for this application. I really think there's some very evil people that have infirltrated Apple and set it on this path, and there's some good yet greedy people who see pharma / body tech as the next big moneymaker.
Health is a much bigger market than even automobiles, and they're working on cars too. They're definitely going to spend more resources to get into ... medical let's say. Since it's not about your health at all, it's about selling you some **** you never needed like heart rate monitors and now detecting if you're sad.... "ordering your some happy drugs, Dave. I know you need them."
it's in line with Apple being clever, always knowing better than its users and automatically using technology for even more silly things nobody asked for.
Why the hell would I trust a 4 year old kid with a thousand dollar phone?
Why the hell do people at grocery stores have kids blasting iPads in the shopping carts instead of talking to their kids about the different foods?
Why the hell do people at grocery stores have kids blasting iPads in the shopping carts instead of talking to their kids about the different foods?